brain inflammation, vaccines, CFS

[cporro]

The question is: what was the chance of dying from Corona under the age of 70? 0.23%, Professor John Ioannidis

yes. i feel like there are some 1st principles that got ignored. risk stratification. the disease was heavily skewed toward old fat and sick. for me it was about the same risk as a flu. for my daughter it was less risky than the flu. i haven't had a flu shot in 25 years. my fear of a disease is based on my specific risk category. in order for me to be pressured i was told it was to protect grandma. the people that read the trials (pfizer) knew that transmission was not an endpoint aka not studied. this was in the literature end of 2020 before anyone got a vaccine. the absolute best you could say about the vaccine was that we don't know if it stops transmission. 2 years later it became obvious to the public this was a non-sterilizing vaccine (does not stop transmission). ooops.

imo these are very basic things. why would i allow my child to get an EUA product for a disease that isn't a threat to her and will not save grandma? that's taking risk with no reward. yet, every kid where i live got the vax. one my of daughter's good friends was the best player on the soccer team (comp league). after her vaccine she was unable to play for more than 10 minutes because she gets dizzy. i can't prove that this is heart damage via vaccine. but i can tell you no one will every look into it as a vaccine injury.

messaging is very powerful. i don't understand why anyone trusts corporate media after all the things they have gotten wrong: wars, pandemic, economic turns.

 

[hapl808]

We don't know if 0.23% is correct, but keep in mind that in the USA assuming there are around 300m under 70, that's still 700k people under 70 years old who would then die. That's the problem with huge numbers.

It's the same problem, sadly, with vaccine side effects. If it only has bad effects on 0.01% of people, you may not see it in a clinical trial of 20,000 people - it could affect 1 or 2 people and be dismissed. But scale that up to 200m people, and now you have tens of thousands badly affected. Public health sometimes makes the trolley problem decision, but if you're one of the people they decide to run over, that's not much comfort. So they pretend it's not a trolley problem, and usually insist basically zero people have bad effects, which is not true of anything. Give pineapple to 200m people, and some are going to react badly.

Now, since we've likely had over 1m die in the USA from it, we're going by studies from those who promoted the vaccines saying they saved countless lives. Those are, by definition, theory - as we can't really know that for sure. And I take them less at their word since the same people completely ignore and gaslight any claim whatsoever of vaccine harm - even the most mild ones.

Like for me, my guess is that vaccines help way more people than they harm. The Hep B vaccine may have helped millions avoid a chronic illness. Unfortunately, I think there's a good chance it absolutely ruined my entire life. I'd be more comfortable with that if it were admitted and we received help, but instead we can't even raise the possibility for fear of being branded a crazy person.

So it's the trolley problem, but if they throw the switch you have to pretend the other track was empty even while covered in blood.

So I don't think that "more money for studying the immune system" is likely to solve ME, at least with the present state of determining which studies get funding.

Actually, I think more money is exactly going to do that. It'll take time, but HIV went from being laughed out of briefings, into being the number one thing that ever infectious disease doctor studied - more than malaria or hepatitis or anything else, because it got more funding. And therefore we made great strides over years and decades.

 

[andyguitar]

Now, since we've likely had over 1m die in the USA from it, we're going by studies from those who promoted the vaccines saying they saved countless lives. Those are, by definition, theory - as we can't really know that for sure.

To me the main problem in reaching a conclusion about the benefits of vaccination versus the harms is that we are unlikley to have sufficient data for many years. I'm talking about the long term effect of a Covid infection on the unvaccinated compared to those who had the jab.

 

[hapl808]

To me the main problem in reaching a conclusion about the benefits of vaccination versus the harms is that we are unlikley to have sufficient data for many years. I'm talking about the long term effect of a Covid infection on the unvaccinated compared to those who had the jab.

And worse, we will likely never have sufficient data because we are actively avoiding collecting the data we would need - vaccinated vs unvaccinated, chronic health issues, etc. Instead we say:

1. Vaccines only cause short term health issues.
2. Because vaccines only cause short term health issues, we can rule out any long term issues as being caused by vaccines.
3. There is no data to support vaccines causing long term health issues (because we ruled them out in 2).



So we just won't know, unless someone accidentally discovers the actual mechanisms involved.

 

[andyguitar]

1. Vaccines only cause short term health issues.
2. Because vaccines only cause short term health issues, we can rule out any long term issues as being caused by vaccines.
3. There is no data to support vaccines causing long term health issues (because we ruled them out in 2).

We might be getting answers about some of these issues soon in the UK as about 50 people are suing Astra Zeneca for harms caused by the Covid jab. The claimants are being represented by a top notch law firm called Leigh Day. It's going to be a long hard fight I dont doubt.

 

[Wayne]

all this tells me is it may be interesting to see how doctors treat vaccine injuries

I didn't realize doctors were treating vaccine injuries. I would be interested in hearing more about that.

Here's a link to a video that should give you some insights into what some of the latest cutting edge therapies are for treating both Long COVID and Long Vaccination. I believe he says at one point that Long Vaccination is more intractable and difficult to treat than Long COVID. I think this video is quite extraordinary.

 

[cporro]

Here's a link to a video that should give you some insights into what some of the latest cutting edge therapies are for treating both Long COVID and Long Vaccination. I believe he says at one point that Long Vaccination is more intractable and difficult to treat than Long COVID. I think this video is quite extraordinary.

this is very good if you want to catch up on what's happening. of note the caparison of vaccine injury to CFS. that's my point in initial post and long historic article link: a product designed to permanently modify immune response with supposedly no collateral damage.

in video they are actually tip toeing around the issue. it's much worse than people think.

the deaths reported to VAERS for the 3 licensed covid products in the first 9 months of 2021 were greater than all deaths from all vaccine products reported from 1990 to 2021. this was reported and then i went to vaers and verified it myself (anyone can do this with a little work). of course since coivd the public has been led to believe that vaers is a worthless system. many gaslighting justifications for why they shouldn't pay attention to a 30 year old surveillance system maintained by the CDC and FDA. there IS one big issue with vaers...it UNDER REPORTS.

 

[beatsmyth]

One of Dr John Chia's studies suggests around 1 or 2% of ME/CFS cases are vaccine triggered. But we don't get any useful research like this from the antivax groups, because these groups don't have any decent scientists working for them.

That's simply just not true. There are many, several dozens, of brilliant Scientists and Doctors from around the world who have studies published on issues with Vaccines especially the mRna ones. In Japan, for one example, they do not inject newborns with as many shots in such a short time. Instead, the schedule is spread over many years and Japan has extremely low Autism, and other issues in their children, compared to the U.S.

Same deal with the Amish, no shots, and they are thriving and dont see any Autism in their communities.

 

[hapl808]

In Japan, for one example, they do not inject newborns with as many shots in such a short time. Instead, the schedule is spread over many years and Japan has extremely low Autism, and other issues in their children, compared to the U.S.

Japan also has higher levels of vaccine preventable illnesses, and a resistance to diagnosing autism or many other psychiatric conditions - because there is much less acceptance for mental health issues there. In general, psychiatric and even neurological conditions are considered private, so family members can sometimes just be hidden away from society.

I'm not sure exactly the differences in vaccine schedules. Certainly Japan has a number of vaccines recommended before 12 months of age, but I agree prior to Covid there was more vaccine hesitancy in Japan. But there is also more of a group sense, so they had higher levels of Covid vaccination than the USA (it was pushed very hard there).

Not that I'm saying the US system is better - just to be careful about holding up another system as a model as there are usually lots of tradeoffs. Unless you've personally had a newborn in both countries, it's very hard to compare pressures, realities, etc.

https://www.jpeds.or.jp/uploads/files/2020 English JPS Immunization Schedule.pdf

I feel it's different with healthcare vs the USA, as it's not one country that's a model - but pretty much every other civilized country doesn't bankrupt their population with normal healthcare.

That's my rant. I also wish we had more study and attention of vaccine-triggered MECFS as I believe it's very likely that was my cause. There is almost no research funding for that, and therefore very few scientists compared to something like HIV research.

 

[Hip]

There are many, several dozens, of brilliant Scientists and Doctors from around the world who have studies published on issues with Vaccines

I am talking about the antivax organisations like Robert F Kennedy Jr's Children's Health Defense group (formerly the World Mercury Project), or Joseph Mercola, Del Bigtree, etc. I am not aware of any decent science coming from them.

Kennedy felt sure that the mercury in vaccines was the cause of autism (even though you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating a can of tuna that you get from a vaccine). So his group campaigned to get mercury removed. After a lot of public pressure, mercury was removed from vaccines. And the result: autism rates continue to climb.

I have no doubt that vaccines of all sorts can trigger ME/CFS, so we do need research into vaccine safety. But in a level headed way, that does not cast vaccines as evil incarnate, which you tend to get from the antivax groups.

Same deal with the Amish, no shots, and they are thriving and dont see any Autism in their communities.

Would you have any links to research on this?

Personally I have a hunch that rural religious populations who abstain from sex before marriage, have little or no amorous affairs during marriage, and who minimise the amount of amorous relationships they have before marriage, are going to have lower levels of both physical and mental illness.

I subscribe to Professor Paul Ewald's view that chronic diseases, physical or mental, are likely caused by the pathogens (viruses, bacteria, etc) we catch from other human beings.

If you live in a crowded urban environment, in close contact with other human beings, you are going to pick up more pathogens than those living in rural areas, so you body slowly becomes filled with various viruses, etc.

Likewise, if you have a lot of amorous relationships in your life, you are likely going to acquire a lot more pathogens in your body, which are spread via saliva during intimate contact such as French kissing and sex.

So the modern trend to living in crowded cities, and the sexual revolution of the 1960s, which laid the foundations of modern liberal values regarding sex, may be the reasons we see so much mental ill health these days, along with increases in many physical illnesses and conditions like autoimmune diseases, autism, diabetes, etc.

Even as a young child, if your parents had lots of amorous relationships before they married, they may harbour more viruses in their bodies, which by normal social contact in the home may be passed onto children (or may even affect the baby in the womb).



Do you know the story of the Italian immigrant town of Roseto in Pennsylvania? In the 1950s and 60s, Roseto residents had remarkably low rates of heart disease, despite their unhealthy diet high in fat. However, by the time the next generation came along in the 1980s and 90s, their rate of heart disease shot up, on par with the US nation average.

Researchers speculate this low rate of heart disease in Roseto may have been due to the tight-knit community, strong family ties, and supportive social networks, arising from traditional Italian values. This might be a factor too, but I suspect the importation of viruses into the community from the next generation adopting liberal sexual values may be the main explanation of why heart disease shot up. Heart disease are associated with many viruses.

Amish communities may be less exposed to disease-causing pathogens too by virtue of their rural life and greater abstinence of multiple amorous relations.

 

[hapl808]

I have no doubt that vaccines of all sorts can trigger ME/CFS, so we do need research into vaccine safety. But in a level headed way, that does not cast vaccines as evil incarnate, which you tend to get from the antivax groups.

This. I believe one specific formulation of the HBV might have caused my symptoms - and the formulation was removed from the market in France after they had a huge increase in multiple sclerosis-like neurological disorders. But no further study was done other than changing the type of HBV used, so those of us with a bad reaction are probably SOL.

Amish communities may be less exposed to disease-causing pathogens too by virtue of their rural life and greater abstinence of multiple amorous relations.

This may be, but I've known a couple people who grew up in Amish communities. No way those communities are taking their children to a psychiatrist to be diagnosed with autism.

That said, I do believe that multiple sex partners obviously could increase exposure to pathogens, and I definitely believe that illnesses can trigger various diseases.

 

[Hip]

This may be, but I've known a couple people who grew up in Amish communities. No way those communities are taking their children to a psychiatrist to be diagnosed with autism.

Yes, getting data from religious communities like that is difficult. And these communities are likely to apply their own religious psychosocial attempts to fix any mental health issues. Even in France you get this: in France, autism is often viewed and treated through the Freudian psychoanalytic perspective, rather than being seen as an organic condition of the brain.

 

[splusholia]

All I can go on is my personal experience: my absolute nightmare CFS journey started after having 4-5 of the required vaccines to be a Healthcare Professional in the U.K. I then stupidly got the flu vaccine once I was diagnosed with CFS — sent me from moderate into very severe and unable to talk.

 

[cporro]

I'm in a few of these communities where people with chronic health issues are trying to get to the bottom of things. Most of them have been failed by the healthcare system. I generally see an examination of the existing science without putting it in context of human nature.

science is very expensive. you need trials with big number and you need several independent trials to confirm your results. the people in the best financial position to conduct it are large corporations and governments. pharma is very lucrative with the largest lobby (bigger than oil now) in Washington. Pharma has 0 interest in funding science that damages a 100B product (Pfizer covid shot). That would be totally dysfunctional behavior. The US Government (CDC get something like 40% income as a vaccine distributor) has a heavy (compared to other countries) vaccination policy. During covid they doubled down on vaccines. I would never expect them to pay for science that could undermine the vaccine program.

the big study that should have been done (in a world we don't live in) decades ago is morbidity/mortality in a vaxxed vs unvaxxed population. this study will NEVER happen. EVER. If you are waiting for this type of science to be done you can stop waiting right now and start crying.

I've concluded that if you want to get to the bottom on the vaccine issue you need to understand something i'll call "psychopathic capitalism". i am not against capitalism in general. but when you have few checks and balances, billions to be made, and the wrong people at the helm, very bad things can happen.

there was a time when vaccines were not that profitable. there was a time when they could be held accountable (before the 1986 act, and the Prep Act). In that era, my mothers, kids got about 5 vaccines. No one knew what autism was. No one had insane food allergies. i do understand all the counter arguments on these points but none of them make a whole lot of sense. for example, we did not change the diagnostic criteria for autism so that it accounts for a 300x increase. not 300% but 300x. anyone who believes diagnostic criteria is changing the autism rate has not done the napkin math. 1/10,000 (x) = 1/34.

So we have a situation where the science will never be done. Or maybe 99.5 dollars will go toward science promoting vaccines and .5 dollars will go towards science that may damage sales. Add to this the cencorship and propaganda around vaccines and it becomes very hard for people to approach the truth.

I have been looking at this since around 2010. my mind is made up as you can probably gather.

I don't know how many people actually read the article that started this thread. it's long, terrifying, but great imo.

 

[Wayne]

I have been looking at this since around 2010. my mind is made up as you can probably gather.

Hi @cporro -- I'd say you nailed it on your conclusions regarding vaccine safety and medical and governmental corruption. I have long felt a large part of my ME/CFS was vaccine induced, and reading that article you linked to in your initial post makes me even more certain of it.

I actually had two very adverse childhood reactions, and never really felt the same again. The following comment in the article makes what I think is a critical point. --

If the DPT vaccine can cause "acute encephalopathy" in a small number of cases (which was acknowledged by the Institute of Medicine in 1991), it must cause a milder condition in a larger number of cases as the reactions of a group of individuals to a given biological stress are never "all or nothing," but fall along a continuum.​

The following comment reminded me of what my sister recently shared with me about her middle-aged daughter.

This encephalitis may produce an intellectual, tormented, and cruel monster out of a gentle girl or boy." "A child of previously responsible character may be so transformed as to seem adifferent person...cruel, destructive, abusive, indecent.​

My sister shared that her daughter was just the sweetest, most loving child you could ever hope for. And immediately after a vaccine, at around 3 years old I believe, she turned into a totally different (disturbed) young child. Apparently her daughter recently asked her something like, "Mom, did something happen to me at some point in my life that deeply affected me?"

I attended a community discussion in Ashland, OR once (which has one of the hightest unvaccinated rate in the nation). Two different women in the audience both briefly stood up and shared that they were pre-school teachers, and they could always tell the very first morning of a new year which children were vaccinated and which ones weren't.

I too have come to my own vaccine conclusions, which I've arrived at over decades of research and observation. I would sum up my own perspectives a bit more harsh than yours (which you presented with remarkable diplomacy).

I think vaccinations are perhaps the biggest and most disastrous con job ever perpetuated on an unsuspecting population (and it has a lot of competition). I believe they've done greater damage than many of the other more commonly known catastrophes such as famine, war, disease, etc. As the title of the below referenced book in the article alludes to, this evil industry is damaging the brains of an entire population, and the purveyors don't care. All they care about is the almighty dollar, and perhaps some kind of "prestige".

BTW, I don't know if you're aware of it, but most (if not all) the diseases people are vaccinated for can be successfully treated with IV Vitamin C. Look up some of the work and articles written on Frederick Klenner, who used this therapy successfully on all the childhood diseases he saw as a rural country doctor in North Carolina back in the 1940's.

I think the title of the following referenced book about says it all....